Greg, do you keep follow my contents reg giving? I hope more clearer if you do.

God loves cheerful giver!

Shalom,
David

As for Russell’s comment on Abraham, I do not agree with him. The bible listed a lot of imperfect men who walked with God, fallen away in sin but the most beautiful part of all is their repentance in returning to God and setting right what was wrong. Abraham may have sin along his walk with God, do we not sin too, got back on our feet, fallen again, got on our feet and still persist on?! We are holding on to a God who is gracious and forgiving. Moreover, I do not think the great men of God, like Moses, Abraham, Jonah, and David took God’s grace and forgiveness for granted. They make mistake and they repent by doing what was right and not repeating the same mistake again.

1. “Abraham tithed only pagan spoils of war.”
The bible did not say that Abraham tithed only pagan spoils from the war. The Bible said he tithed a tenth of all he has - Genesis 14:20

2. “Abraham only tithed once.”
The bible mentioned only once about Abraham tithing but it does not necessary mean this is it. The point is not how many time he tithed but rather the purpose behind his tithing to Melchizedek. It is an acknowledgement of Melchizedek being a great king and also a priest of God - Genesis 14:18

3. “Abraham gave the 90% to the king of Sodom.”
Abraham did not give 90% to the king of Sodom. The king of Sodom asked for the people in exchange for the spoils from the war for Abraham. But look at Abraham’s response to the king in Genesis 14:21-23. He took nothing from the spoils and not because Abraham was already very rich. It is simply that he didn’t want the king and the people to think he was made rich by the king. Moreover, Abraham was not willing to exchange for the souls of the men under him with things of the world.

4. “Abraham lied about his wife twice.”
As I mentioned before, no men is perfect. God uses only those whose heart is for Him. Abraham’s heart is definitely for God. We follow what is right and throw out what is bad. But we do not condemn any man for his sins otherwise we make ourselves out to be God, judging men. Have you considered Abraham’s faith in God that he sacrified his only son, Isaac, to God when he was told to do so? In Hebrew, Abraham was deemed righteous before God because of his faith. His faith pleased God. I do not know about anyone but I sure would like God to be please with my faith like He did with Abraham.

Abraham was also given the promises of his descendants like the stars in the sky and like the sands on the beach. His descendants will receive the blessings that God has promised to him and his descendants. The bible tells us that we are the spiritual descendants of Abraham and what he received from God, we receive it, too. Do you not want to receive the blessings that Abraham has for all his descendants?

I like what David has written here about tithing, and the attitude of our hearts in bringing our first fruits to God. I like and agree with what Tom has said in explanation to Greg. I am a faithful tither and I have seen God’s hands move in my life as I tithe knowing that what I bring before God was His in the first place. Also, there is a debt that I cannot repay to God, and that is the sacrifice of His Son on the cross for my sins.

It’s good that you understand that the New Commandment removes the hypocritical interpretation from the Old Testament Mosaic Law. Of course, this is no condemnation of Moses. Moses did the best he could with what he was given to understand. We must remember that what was going on then in the area known today as Palestine was often horrifying even when compared against the mass killing done by the followers of Moses. Moses was moved to rid the place of what he considered unspeakable evil. Jesus though showed us that killing is hypocritical (no calling down the wrath) even when applied to those who were doing the wicked deeds some were doing in and around Palestine (Canaan). Jesus came to further enlighten all the way to perfection.

As for a denomination, if you follow the link that is my name in this comment, you should arrive at the Real Liberal Christian Church site. I don’t create links in comments on David’s site here, because such comments go to spam and that just makes more work for David.

God bless,

Tom Usher

P.S. If you enter your website’s address when entering your comment, your name will be a link too. Perhaps you knew that or don’t have a site. I mention it for the benefit of the many.

Is there a Denomination you attend or are you independant of such?

Thanks!

As for the old law and the New law of Christ, have you all considered this verse?

John 14:21 (New King James Version)

21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

Jesus had fifty commandments. There where fifty things he said to do and not to do as a believer.

Who loves Jesus according to the verse above?

The person that knows the fifty commandments of Jesus and the person that keeps them.

And if they keep them, Jesus and God the Father will love them.

And Jesus will manifest himself to that person.

Jesus said if you want to be perfect, sell all that you have, take up your cross and follow him.

In Acts the people sold all thier land and property and bought it to the apostles feet.

Jesus said we should love the Father with ALL our heart mind and soul.

Surely 10% isn’t too much. I find sometimes I have 30% going to God some weeks.

All your heart should be at least the old ten percent and if you are not doing that, you are giving less then a Jew used to without the blessing of the Holy Spirit in their life.

Greg, I don’t understand why the New Commandment sounded like the Mosaic Law to you.

As for obeying what Christ told us to do and not to do, it certainly may be listed. The list won’t be exhaustive though for anyone who doesn’t understand the summation of the law that is the New Commandment. When Jesus said to the adulteress, go and sin no more, one may be sure that listed in the law is the prohibition against adultery. Surely you concede that. Do you want to start to list all the prohibitions and requirements Jesus discussed in terms people would accept as highly literal? The list would be extensive. He specified many things. The summation though covers it all, as violating even the least violates the greatest. That’s the point.

As for being made righteous by what Jesus did, everyone claiming Christianity has not been made righteous by what Jesus did. There are people who call themselves Christians who are deliberately engaging in what they know is wrong and doing so gleefully. We will be separated according to our works as Jesus said. Those who work iniquity rebelling against the divine law as stated and demonstrated by Jesus will be with the goats.

Having the law written on your heart means knowing right from wrong without the need for anyone lording it over you with a mundane legal code. It does not relieve one of the responsibility to follow the real law of God. In fact, the more one knows that law, the more one is obligated.

I don’t know how you see no biblical basis for the New Commandment as an ordinance of God to keep as a Christian. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. As for the Ten Commandments, they are assuredly Old Testament that were decidedly and hypocritically applied in mass ignorance. Jesus came to make that clear and plain, and he did. In doing so, he did not remove the law but rather raised the bar, infinitely.

As for tithing and the subject at hand, what I don’t let pass is that tithing isn’t required because there is no law and tithing is law. That argument is dead. If tithing isn’t required, it isn’t because there is no law. It is because tithing isn’t part of the law of God. The question here then is whether or not tithing is divine law. It is for this reason that what I wrote in my earlier comment was not off subject.

The answer is that tithing, per se, is not the divine law. What is the divine law though is giving and sharing. It means sharing the fruits of labor with all including those who spread the word in earnest. When Jesus traveled about preaching and healing, he was put up and fed by those of hospitality. He deserved that and more. They entered into his labor. That’s the real Christian spirit. We are to be one, united in love.

What is tithing? Most of us know it means giving a tenth. What did Jews give that we know of where Jesus commented. “And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.” — Luke 19:8-9. So, what Zacchaeus did pleased Jesus. Then there is this. “And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.” — Acts 4:36-37. Barnabas gave everything he had, just as the old woman when she gave all her living into the treasury. How much is enough? Do you want to be perfect? Jesus said to give it all and follow him.

Are we required to tithe to the Church? The Church is its people. If we are to be servants to the least as the least, surely we are to give our all over to the Church. Properly identifying the Church is required. Part of that is knowing what the people who make up the Church do further with what is given over. If they do as Jesus asked, all is right. If they deviate and have ulterior motives, it’s corrupt. It is not the real Church.

The prosperity preachers for example are fakes who preach a deviant message always stressing the question, what material possessions are in it for me. That is exactly the opposite of what Jesus preached. They have received their reward, as Jesus said. That information, as with all information from Jesus, is both profitable and useful, of course.

God bless.

Tom Usher

But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

Thank you.

Sacrificing animals is not the law. It is not the New Commandment.

Do you not believe in the New Commandment of Jesus Christ? Do you not believe that it is the law? Do you believe that the two Great Commandments are not the law? Do you believe that they no longer apply? Do you not love God with your all? Are you no longer obligated to love your neighbor as yourself just because of what Paul wrote in a letter to the Galatians?

Do you believe that the context of Paul has done away with the Golden Rule, which is the law of God?

Where is your faith leading you if not to do the New Commandment given to you by your lord and savior?

The Golden Rule is the word (truth) spoke and exemplified by the Son of God in God’s name. How can you believe otherwise and be Christian? You can not. Follow Jesus.

God bless.

Tom Usher

Tithing funded the school system and the school bus. That Temple and that priesthooo has been replaced with the priesthood of every beleiver and the OT purpose of tithing is gone. It has been replaced by better NT giving principles of sacrificial giving motivated by love.

Abraham tithed only pagan spoils of war.
Abraham only tithed once.
Abraham gave the 90% to the king of Sodom.
Abrahamn lied about his wife twice.
I do not follow everything Abraham did as an example of his faith.